BetVictor Spins MisInformation Mayhem!

Shopping Around

Last month I decided to have a go at BetVictor's "Fish Party" Lottery SNGs. One of the reasons I chose to learn Spins is that I knew that other sites had followed suit and it would allow for me to bar poker site crawl around and unlock some deposit bonuses at the very least.

With a lot of the Lottery SNGs still having worse rake then Pokerstars, as well as the inconvenience of moving money around to possible riskier smaller sites, it would have to be really worth it to move. However, rakeback shopping at PokerVIP or RakeTheRake, it can make it more profitable then Stars to at least unlock the deposit bonuses.

I noticed that BetVictor was introducing Lottery SNGs in July, and so jumped on the chance to unlock the bonus, since I had got a "diamond" for life status at my account which allowed me to get 30% rakeback without needing any minimum rake earnings.

With all these considerations, I tried to do some calculations beforehand and really be as careful as I could be in working out whether it was worth it. This was their structure shown on their website;

After starting the grind I noticed something that was shocking to me...

It wasn't 4x's but 3x's! Was this something that was always there, or did they decide to change this after one month of launch? Either way, its an absolute disgrace that their webpage gives out the wrong information.

Also, their webpage gives out the wrong information on the blinds structure as well. The antes are way bigger then the information showed there...

Its really sad to see that there's no consequence when companies do this, surely it should be their priority to make sure that the information is correct. Its basically fraud, as there is no way in hell I would have played these knowing that the 4x's are actually 3x's.


The Numbers

I've had a quite bit of help from a player off the Spins Skype group so hopefully these are right.

The rolling Jackpot is around 100k Euros atm for 10 stake, but since its so unlikely I didn't add that into my calculations.

Lets look at the numbers and compare how much substantially harder it is to beat these games when it is 3x rather then 4x.

Here we can see that in the 4x original probabilites pre-rakeback the breakeven point is 50 Chip EV and EV ITM of 36.7% needed. Post rakeback of 30% its pretty similar.

BetVictor Spins with 4x Structure for 10 Euro Stake at 5% rake

This would actually be comparable to Stars $15 stake which rakes at 6%. Breakeven is 40 Chip EV but EV ITM is also 36%. Post rakeback is 30 Chip EV and 35% ITM. Ironically the lower rake in BetVictor means that rakeback effects the EV needed less!

Pokerstars $15 Stake Spins at 6% rake

Now look at when the 4x's are replaced with 3x's. The numbers are ridiculous in comparison.
Chip EV breakeven point is 100 with 40% ITM needed, and with rakeback its 95 Chip EV. Only the very best Spins players in the world can reach these numbers.

BetVictor's 4x to 3x changes at 10 Euro Stake at 5% rake.

On their page they make the claim that their 5% rake is one of the "cheapest in their industry". But with these changes, the effective rake is probably one of the highest.

Since the 3x is replacing the 4x without adjusting the occurrence numbers, BetVictor gets to essentially keep an extra buy in of prizepool, therefore hiking up the effective rake.

BetVictor Review

Even though this whole mess was due to an updated website, there are some things to be said that aren't all gloom and doom.

The depositing process needed ID and proof of address for the maximum amount needed for the deposit bonus. But with their website having a live chat, this made things a lot easier, and makes me wish that Pokerstars would have one day...

All of them were quite helpful, especially when I wanted information before I went for the deposit. My only mistake was not checking with them that their website was accurate, but then again why would I?

Oh all of them apart from this one woman, she had no clue... it was too funny!

I quickly gave up on her... maybe first day?

Upon finding out about the error I emailed them and they promptly updated their website. However, the blinds structures are still wrong.

I was also surprised that I was allowed to cash out everything. Most of the time these sites have a minimum rake needed that players had to pay before allowing a cash out. This could be due to the complaint I had made, or maybe I had played enough? 

As far as the games go, they are soft... but only during peak time. I found this one reg during the day who was on every single game I played almost. With around 7k players during peaktime around 6pm+ (hide your wives, step aside 200k playerpool Pokerstars!), the games are totally soft as one would expect. But its just not instantly popping up like Pokerstars, maybe a few second wait.

I played 224 spins there, 73/74/76 distribution, ev bb/100 at 2.5 and I lost half my roll excluding rakeback. 

I don't know why they changed the 4x's to 3x's after one month, when the industry standard is 2x, 4x, 6x, 10x...

Anyways, this is a long ass post, I haven't done one in a few weeks. Really wanna stick to a weekly thing. Its nice to be back on Stars! #Hate/LoveRelationship Hope y'all doing well in ur games, til next time!